James D. Downham, President & CEO, PAC, Packaging Consortium
November 6, 2017
Problems with water in the Packaging Industry
- Plastic water bottles are overpriced, and people view plastic as bad.
- Plastic can be recycled but is not.
- Marine debris.
- By 2050, weight of plastic in the ocean will be equal to weight of fish in the ocean.
- Gyres are big chunks of plastic in the ocean.
- Fish eat plastic and we eat fish.
- 50% of plastic in the ocean is from Asia.
- Canadians are concerned that Americans will take all our freshwater.
- 1 billion people are without clean water in the world.
- We know that water is valuable but it is not priced that way.
- Water is priced higher in Singapore and Australia.
- People are starting to pay attention to water consumption and are trying to start saving water.
- Water will become more expensive in countries where it is more abundant (like Canada).
Things We Should Consider
- Convenient installation.
- Price driven by payback.
- Do a financial analysis.
- He would try to save water if he knew he was using more than others in the family.
- It must be appealing to customers.
- Emotional impact.
- Keep the quality of the shower high.
- How to get people to buy our product:
- Cost savings.
- Charitable aspect.
- Put certain % of profit to helping the water scarcity problem.
- Metrics:
- Money.
- Should be able to compare to yourself.
- Time.
- Water savings go to kids.
- Things we should consider:
- Women use more water than men.
- What if someone is in the house alone and has no one to compare their water consumption to?
Dr. Magdalena Krol, P. Eng. Assistant Professor, Civil Engineering, York University
November 13, 2017
Comments/Suggestions for CTRL-Z's Flow Finder
- An important design consideration is who is the intended user of Ctrl-Z’s Flow Finder?
- Product could be good for rental situations to prevent situation where one roommate subsidizes the longer shower habits of the other roommate.
- Could also be useful for gym showers to encourage responsible use of water.
- Consider fingerprint privacy issues with biometrics.
- Ensure the fingerprint reader works while finger is wet.
- Consider color coding the winner (lowest use family member) on the display screen.
- The next generation should have different attitudes about water conservation.
- Area of interest is environmental engineering with a focus on groundwater, a source of fresh water.
- Some homes in Toronto have no water meters. For example, they would have a fixed water bill of $30/month.
Dr. Ahmed Eldyasti, P. Eng. Assistant Professor, Civil Engineering, York University
November 13, 2017
- Area of interest is quality of surface water.
- Works with bacteria and microbes which generate biogas.
- Extracts residual solids from water to recovery energy from them.
Comments/Suggestions for CTRL-Z's Flow Finder
- Should consider the commercial application.
- Consider having a limit of, say, 100 liters per month.
- Should consider the total cost of water, including waste water treatment which is expensive to process (in Canada, government subsidizes waste water treatment).
- Awareness is the way to change attitudes.
- Send notification alert to homeowner when excessive water use is detected.
- Ctrl-Z’s Flow Finder is a good idea.
Dr. Usman Khan, P. Eng. Assistant Professor, Civil Engineering, York University
November 13, 2017
- Area of interest is ways to prevent flooding (e.g. use plants and vegetation to absorb water).
- There is a general myth about water abundance in Canada. Water is often not accessible.
- e must recycle the same water over and over.
Comments/Suggestions for CTRL-Z's Flow Finder
- This could be applied to other water uses in the house.
- He likes the gamification in Ctrl-Z’s Flow Finder.
- Once a certain water volume threshold (e.g. average) is reached, user must scan fingerprint again in order for shower to continue. I ideally the scanner is inconveniently located so that user will think twice before extending the shower.
- Have indicator lights to advise user as to amount of water usage.
- Information, on its own, is not enough to change behavior. Therefore invention should show how much money is saved.
- When looking at the cost of water, must consider the infrastructure needed to carry the water (city water pipes).
- We must keep current water consumption in the system at current levels.
- High rises are replacing houses in the city.
- Consider linking to amount of water used every month to warn homeowners on their cell phone (like positioning the Flow Finder at the house’s water meter).
- Ctrl-Z’s Flow Finder can be applied used for all appliances and water uses in the home.
- Do high efficiency showerheads trump Ctrl-Z’s Flow Finder?
- What combination works best: (a) shorter duration showers with high water flow rate, or (b) longer duration showers with low water flow rate.
- Sharing data with municipality to get a different/lower water rate may serve as a better incentive.
- It is difficult to change individuals’ behavior. To do so, must increase the price of water but need to consider human rights issues as they relate to water. Access to water is a human right.
- A household would need multiple Ctrl-Z Flow Finders. Ideally, they talk to each other.
- Dr. Khan suggests a selling price of $20 - $40 for Ctrl-Z’s Flow Finder. A payback period of 3 – 10 years would be deemed to be acceptable.
Mr. Calvin Chan, Operations Manager, Rubinet Faucets
November 12, 2017
- Mr. Chan is mechanical engineer by training.
- Regulation: American Society of Mechanical Engineers (“ASME”) and standard flow rate:
- the maximum flow rate a shower can have with an ASME stamp is 2.5 gallons/minute at 60 pounds/square inch.
- shower can go on market with over the standard maximum but home inspectors may argue that you may not put your shower head in a resident’s home.
- Maximum flow rate under WaterSense/LEED is 1.8 gallons/minute.
- With LEED sustainability standards, one receives points. The goal is to “beat” the standard (2.5 gal/minute) by 20% for 1 point, by 30% for 2 points and by 40% for 3 points.
- Other Countries
- other continents such as in Europe have more expensive water and tighter standards because their water is not as abundant.
- places in drought like California have lower flow rate standards because they are trying to save water, they also try to stay away from non eco-friendly shower heads.
- standards can also change in these drought-prone areas.
- Pressure balance valve:
- regulates temperature.
- has three pipe entrances; one for cold water, one for hot water, and one on top for the happy medium that you can set the temperature to.
- if cold water pressure goes down, device will lower hot water too.
- balances the pressure.
Suggestions for Ctrl-Z's Flow Finder:
- average price for high-end quality $300.
- in house finished assembling.
- can use your preferred shower head.
- people like high pressure flow rates.
- market likes approved stamp from CSA.
- slick electronics are more popular in North America.
- Watersense flow measurement is at 80 PSI.
- CSA flow measurement is at 60 PSI.
- Maximum flow rate for certification is 1.8 gpm.
Calvin’s comments on Ctrl-Z’s Flow Finder:
- He has never seen a product such as this.
- biometrics may not function when wet. Something to be checked.
- use gallons and Fahrenheit instead of liters and Celsius.
- keep product energy under 5 volts to avoid the need for certification.
- product would be best sold in North America.
- most sales will be residential.
- “knowing how much you use is beneficial”.
- “big companies are interested in smart showers”.
- the only incentive for residential water-saving is water bills.
- “Gamification is a great idea”.
- Introducing a turbine to generative electricity would restrict water flow.
- For the display, consider showing liters, gallons and dollar value.
- Showerheads:
- Without a limiter, the relationship between the gpm and the PSI is almost linear, but with a limiter, the gpm would eventually level off no matter the PSI.
- Miscellaneous:
- In water-rich areas such as Canada, the energy required to heat water outweighs in cost the actual water.
- LEEDs give out certifications to buildings if they save a certain amount of energy (green, silver, gold, platinum).
Mr. Corey Ryan, Program Manager, Education and Outreach, Regional Municipality of York
November 13, 2017
- The team demonstrated Ctrl-Z’s flowmeter shower mockup.
- His comment was that it was awesome to see.
- He said “you have nailed it”.
- He requested a link to a YouTube video and additional photos so that he could obtain reactions of his colleagues to the innovative solution.
- make the raspberry pi bathroom safe and find a location where it could be seen by the person showering.
- simple signals while you are in the shower would be helpful. What comes to mind are simple things like smiley faces/ angry faces.
- We all agreed on a real-time indicator would be helpful to prompt the person to finish up
- the indicator could also display the reading from the last shower (or ‘best’, or average) as a challenge to beat
- for children it might be useful to translate quantities into something they would recognize i.e. you have used this many bathtubs full or milk jugs or beach pails.
- The flow measurement device could be built into a low flow shower head (since the flow meter itself does not reduce the amount consumed). This would also save the homeowner from investing in another ‘thing’ and could solve the challenge of where to mount/install it. Remember people place a lot of value on the aesthetic (design, features and finishes) of their bathroom space
- any tool that increases awareness is valuable. We are confident people want to do that right thing and want to be part of making an impact, so by giving people the power to understand how they can help we are encouraging positive behaviour change.
Jake Mather, National Marketing Manager, Neptune Technology Group (Canada) Ltd.
March 31, 2018
- Homeowner engagement for water conservation and education is a goal for Neptune.
- There is a need to educate homeowners about what goes into providing water because homeowners currently do not know.
- Water meter is from ‘direct’ line to the house, not specific appliances.
- Metering is in 15-minute ‘intervals’ to detect if there is a continuous leak in the house but not consumption patterns by appliance/users/uses.
- One challenge is to advise that there is a water leak in the house and another is to advise where exactly the leak is in the house.
- A device like the Flow Finder could help indicate direction of where a household leak may be.
- Adding mobile connections in each appliance would help detect where leaks may be instead of tracing lines by expensive plumbers.
- He likes the idea because he can help his customers / municipalities help end users to adopt conservation.
- He likes the idea because he can help his customers / municipalities help end users to adopt conservation.
- A device like the Flow Finder could be applied to household appliances. Would have to adapt to various sizes of pipes and lines.
- Residential water conservation should focus on the bathroom because approximately 80% of household water usage is there.
- Neptune’s clients care about ensuring end users conserve water.
- Can we develop a smart phone app? Can we track flow finder by date/month/user? Answer: Yes, Ctrl-Z is in the process of developing charting and other analytics for the Flow Finder.
- Education aspect is good angle to pursue (e.g. keeping showers at about five minutes).
- City of Toronto is very interested in conservation and has amongst the highest rated water in North America.
- Water softener tied to a showerhead would reduce water consumption.
- Flow Finder is a product Neptune could use to educate end users or have installed in customer houses.
- Could include a message (or a link to a website) on the water bill to educate households. A municipal online portal would allow households to see their water consumption.
- Consumers would be interested in purchasing the Flow Finder and there is an opportunity to change behaviour.
- Data they collect to be made relevant to homeowner. Average water usage will go down as people see their consumption.
- Based on one’s area and line size, it is helpful to know household’s water usage relative to average usage. People are more likely to change their consumption pattern when they have this information.
- Neptune software has running reports on top 50% of water users.
- Flow Finder could be adapted to detect leaks. This is important because 15% - 20% of homes have water leaks.
- Huge value of data – what impact can be had from shower alone? If 10%, that’s huge impact from shower alone. Cities would pay more for high quality data and granular data to help ‘engagement’.
- Mr. Mather likes the Flow Finder. A recommendation is that it be mobilized to be connected to different lines in the house (such as the toilet and the kitchen sink).
- Induction magnetic flow meters, which clamp around the pipe, would be worth exploring further.
Alex Mifflin, Water Brothers Host, Water Brothers
May 10, 2018
- It’s more efficient to save the environment from the energy savings (hot water saving) than from the water itself
- We should consider displaying how much money someone is saving
- Give someone a good reason to change or do something
- Everyone showers so we can make a big difference with our product
- Most water is heated with fossil fuels
- Branch Off the Flow Finder into agriculture & industry as well as domestic
- “It matters when you make small changes in your daily life” - Alex Mifflin
- “In California, every drop counts” - Alex Mifflin
- “People don’t want 6 different apps to do 1 single thing” - Alex Mifflin
- Tell people the economic argument, then start talking about greenhouse gas emissions
- Advertise trying to reduce greenhouse gas emissions
- In California, talk mainly about water conservation
- Many Canadians don’t pay the true value of water
- In Toronto, the cost of water has been rising by 9% per year for the past 9 years
- Toronto is ahead of the cities by raising their water prices, other cities are a bit behind
- Alex Mifflin thinks the price of water in Canada should be raised
- Cost is very high to treat water
- The Flow Finder can be applied to sprinklers and hoses
- Domestic does use a big part of domestic water usage, we are doing a good job tackling showers because they are a big user of domestic water
- We should partner with a company like Nest or Ecobee because they can give the user more detailed information about their ecological footprint for their family